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Mike Martin

Increase in Unsuitable Candidates

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22 hours ago, Sontaran said:

A lot of Provinces are starting to move in that direction - ours included.

Nevertheless, the system is still open to abuse unless monitored and governed by an independent panel of administrators.  

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You took a oath to to make men into masons aren't you forgetting why and what the accents were, well since you have I will remind you Builders. You have been given a great responsibility to a mold rough ashlar into a finely polished stone. 1st degree forgot ? "Quote "  The new entered apprentice is the rough material straight from the quarry. “Rough undressed stone - ignorant, uncultivated man, ready to be squared and prepared for purposeful employment by skilled craftsmen”

Edited by Wm.Michael D.Wright
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42 minutes ago, Wm.Michael D.Wright said:

You took a oath to to make men into masons aren't you forgetting why and what the accents were, well since you have I will remind you Builders. You have been given a great responsibility to a mold rough ashlar into a finely polished stone. 1st degree forgot ? "Quote "  The new entered apprentice is the rough material straight from the quarry. “Rough undressed stone - ignorant, uncultivated man, ready to be squared and prepared for purposeful employment by skilled craftsmen”

Hi there and welcome to the Forum, it might be nice if you stick a little intro into the relevant section.

I suppose that it's possible that where you are you do take an oath like that but here in England we do not take an oath to make anyone Masons in fact the closest we get to that is as an Installed Master we promise not to be involved with the making of women Masons.

I'm not sure if you've misinterpreted the talk of "ashlars" as here it is related to ourselves and our efforts to improve ourselves so that we become a credit to ourselves and to Freemasonry. The treatment of the Ashlar in our First Degree lecture seems quite different to yours: "The Rough Ashlar is a stone, rough and unhewn as taken from the quarry, until, by the industry and ingenuity of the workman, it is modeled, wrought into due form, and rendered fit for the intended structure. This represents man in his infant or primitive state rough and unpolished as that stone, until by the kind care and attention of his parent or guardians, in giving him a liberal and virtuous education, his mind becomes cultivated, and he is thereby rendered a fit member of civilised society. The Perfect Ashlar is a stone of a true die or square, fit only to be tried by the Square and Compasses. This represents man in the decline of years, after a regular well-spent life in acts of piety and virtue, which can no otherwise be tried and approved than by the Square of God's Word, and the Compass of his own self-convincing conscience."

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Tonight we are advancing a young man, who I am told for some medical reason fell into a coma. For how long I don't know as I did not attend commttee meeting to discuss this person joining my Mark Lodge. However having come out of his coma I am told he is brain damaged. His father managed to get him into his craft lodge and from what I understand it was very difficult putting him through the three ceremonies. Tonight I am relating the secrets to him, and I feel uncomfortable, as I feel he should not be a member. However other people who have met him at interview think different. His dad is not a member of my lodge, but will be JD for the evening to support his son, so both Deacons will be taking him through the ceremony. 

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Very difficult. How can he confirms that he placed his trust in God and how can he do any of the obligations.

 

I personally think his case should have been refereed to UGLE for a definite answer

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This evening in lodge was a total farce, he did not say anything, the senior deacon said it for him. the obligation was just quoted to him. I had difficulty in getting him to follow what I was asking him to do, therefore I just continued to the end without him he just stood there.

I feel that if I say something I will get myself in trouble, so it is best to let things go.

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May I suggest that reference is made to the section: 'Disabled Candidates' in the booklet Information for the Guidance of Members of the Craft.  This, you will see, is one of the decisions made by the Board of General purposes.  In the situation you mention it would seem appropriate seek advice from the Grand Secretary.  That some kind of ceremony has been performed involving this poor chap, that is a separate issue which you would need to mention to the Grand Secretary.

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Lewis and Trouillogan,

Please note that Medic is referring to an "Advancement" into a Mark Lodge, the Candidate appears to have already been made a member of a UGLE Lodge

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13 minutes ago, Mike Martin said:

Lewis and Trouillogan,

Please note that Medic is referring to an "Advancement" into a Mark Lodge, the Candidate appears to have already been made a member of a UGLE Lodge

Thank you Mike, yes he is a member of a UGLE Lodge. I was told at the FB any questions put to him in his Craft lodge was answered by a deacon. 

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2 hours ago, Medic said:

Thank you Mike, yes he is a member of a UGLE Lodge. I was told at the FB any questions put to him in his Craft lodge was answered by a deacon. 

It would seem, then, that as he was not capable of answering for himself in UGLE, the edifice could collapse and his UGLE degree conferrals be void.  I really believe this should be referred to the UGLE Grand Secretary for advice, followed by a similar referral to the Mark Grand Secretary.

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