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If you could redesign regular Freemasonry to include any Rite or Order, which ones would you include?

Or do you think that having a selection of (relatively) independent Orders to choose after a Craft (perhaps + Mark) and HRA backbone is the best way to do things.......

 

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I have to say that I prefer our English pick-and-mix arrangement, with pre-qualifications, to a regimented order.  We can select to our individual tastes and needs, as they develop over the years.  Of course, it's the way I'm used to, so won't suit everyone.

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I defo wouldn't want to try and "bring them in" as I don't see it as really practical and I also feel that doing so would add credence to their "legendary histories".

I would, however, like to see a proper education given to Freemasons about their actual origins so that they can make their own informed decision about whether they want to get involved with them.

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I like the Scottish system that you do Mark in your craft lodge. Most lodges have one or two Mark degrees per year. No separate governing body and no other regalia therefore preventing unnecessary cost. 

 

I’d like to see HRA done in craft lodges in England as a “special meeting” when there’s a candidate. I don’t see the need for separate governing bodies. 
 

I’d keep all the other side orders separate. 

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I think MrSifter has got it about right. I’d like to see the Mark in its proper place, between Passing and Raising, followed by HRA, all in the the Craft lodge.

I’m rather pleased that the other orders are not in the vice-like and stifling grip of UGLE.

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2 hours ago, 3GP441 said:

Is that Mark and Passing of Veils before HRA a la our Caledonian Brethren?

 

I think so. Mark after Passing and before Raising, and PoV after Raising and before HRA.

Were you at the demonstration of POV a couple of years ago at Bateman St? Very interesting. 

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In Scotland you have to be a MM to do your Mark. 
 

The lodge is opened in the 3rd then reduced to a second to perform the ceremony. 
 

Not sure about HRA up there as I was exalted in England. 

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In Scotland the Royal Arch consists of three Degrees (aside from the Installation of the Principals and Office bearers) The Mark, which is the first degree an applicant for the Royal Arch will take (and like in England and Wales you must be a M.M. before being eligible to take the Mark), The Excellent Masters Degree (The Passing of the Veils) and finally the Exaltation.

In Scotland the Mark Degree is primarily considered a Royal Arch Degree although by "agreement" between the Supreme Royal Arch Chapter of Scotland and the Grand Lodge of Scotland it can also be given in Craft Lodges (and nowadays this is the more usual route). I put "agreement" in inverted commas because that is a story in itself. The main difference is that the R.W.M. of a Scottish Craft Lodge dispenses the Mark Degree by virtue of his authority of being Installed in the Chair of K.S. He is not an Installed Mark W.M. as recognised in England & Wales. That, on occasion, leads to "debate" as to whether a Mark mason made in a Craft Lodge is a "proper" Mark mason".

I stay well out of such debates, having been Initiated, Passed, Raised, Advanced and Exalted in England but having been through all those ceremonies in Scotland as well. So I've been "double done", as it were.

Should an applicant to join a Chapter have already received his Mark Degree in a Craft Lodge his first step would be to affiliate his Mark to the Mark Lodge held within the Chapter. Consisting of a short Obligation he would then go straight into the Passing of the Veils Degree that evening. 

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A Scottish friend of mine joined our Mark lodge a couple of years ago. He'd received his Mark in his Scottish Craft lodge, but we accepted it anyway. For some reason it fell to me to prove him beforehand, and I noticed that they give one of the signs very slightly differently. 

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There is quite a difference in the signs used in England and Scotland, ie., the signs for all three Craft Degrees vary greatly. And just wait until you get to the Temple Degrees and Rose Croix. Still. still part of Life's rich tapestry.

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