No Jab - no meeting

[Lagavara1 10]

Yesterday I was attending a rugby match fixture in the Republic of Ireland as a supporter from Northern Ireland.   

Within masonry the Grand Lodge of Ireland governs both RoI and NI. A RoI mason showed me his stated meeting circular of which it clearly states No jab - no meeting with a proof of vaccine certificate required to be shown for admission.  

I query the authority GLoI has to impose this when Irish Gov guidelines do not refer to such gatherings as lodge meetings in NI do not seek proof of jab. 

Any other  provinces or GL seeking proof of jab / vaccination? 

   

[bod 25]

As a private body GLoI can make whatever stipulations they wish

[Sontaran 91]

For that matter, lodges -at least under UGLE- are also private bodies and can therefore make whatever stipulations they choose.

[Sentience 64]

Condition of entry is always the right of private bodies.  If you don't want to abide by their conditions, don't try and enter.

[Lagavara1 10]

On 24/10/2021 at 17:37, bod said:

As a private body GLoI can make whatever stipulations they wish

I concur that GLoI often makes Laws and stipulations up as they wish without discussion.   

But as a stipulation it is appears that it is only being applied partially within a part of its jurisdiction. That is not within NI, but only in RoI. 

And thus i enquire if any other province or GL seeking proof of jab / vaccination.

[Mike Martin 143]

1 hour ago, Lagavara1 said:

I concur that GLoI often makes Laws and stipulations up as they wish without discussion.   

But as a stipulation it is appears that it is only being applied partially within a part of its jurisdiction. That is not within NI, but only in RoI. 

And thus i enquire if any other province or GL seeking proof of jab / vaccination.

That will be because the RoI Govt. has made different Covid19 stipulations to the Northern Ireland Assembly. The RoI seems to require lots of evidence of vaccination for indoor activities, this of course is not under GLoI's control.

We have had similar situations in the mainland where England, Scotland and Wales have all had different responses to social distancing over the last year and that's not to mention the Islands of Man, Guernsey, Jersey who have also had their own responses too.

[Lagavara1 10]

I had travelled down to RoI from NI during the weekend - not a masonic meeting but another grouping. 

However, another mason from RoI was attending whom i knew. Discussion regarding vaccination certificate requirement and the regulation that masonry has applied was mentioned.

It appears that GLI have selected to apply the most strict regulation . I suppose better safe than sorry. Apparently we the same men could meet under a different category title of gathering without need to show a jab certificate. 

All very difficult and delicate issues, but surely members are well capable of assessing their own risk when many lodge rooms are only opened up once a month. 

Anyway - keep safe.      

  

[Matatu Man 1]

Here in Luxembourg the Grand Lodge takes the approach, like most Grand Lodges seem to, that they will follow government guidelines/regulations. Thus we apply the 'COVID Pass' system (passport 😆) that allows only fully vaccinated (and boosted) or recovered persons at indoor functions, and that masks be worn.

[Sontaran 91]

On 08/11/2021 at 15:31, Lagavara1 said:

surely members are well capable of assessing their own risk when many lodge rooms are only opened up once a month.

  

🤣 that's debatable given the number of people who either don't believe the virus exists or refuse to have the vaccination because of a) allows the government to track them, b) gives them the virus, c) don't believe it works, d) insert a conspiracy theory of your choosing!

Having actually HAD the virus, I can say with absolute certainty it exists!

But yes; stay safe!

Edited December 24, 2021 by Sontaran

[Lagavara1 10]

Sontaran, hope you fully recovered.

I have from within my immediate family those who attend to private households with Covid as their jobs demands so. Their job demands they follow appropriate measures and they never disregard their own personal reasonability.

Masons are well able to follow government guidelines and regulations. The Orders blanket decision in Ireland telling members not to meet is financially closing down larger halls with catering and club bar facilities.  If government permits catering and bars to be open then masons should surely be able to meet in their own premises.  Even if an actual meeting is deemed unnecessary the gathering of the lodge at catering and bar maintains the masonic connection nad breaks the isoloation of many elderly. 

Of course such gatherings are invitational and not a summons !   

[Sentience 64]

Any premises has the right to impose conditions of entry on users of the premises.  If people want to use them, abide by the conditions.  If they don't want to observe and comply with the conditions, don't moan when they can't get in.

[Lagavara1 10]

Regrettably some lodge secretaries in Belfast (IC) are not informing members that to gain access to their hall that they must follow the same covid regulation as if seeking to enter a hotel, bar etc. These public covid regulations have been applied for several weeks and merely copied to Masonic premises.

And yet of those turned away some become annoyed and allegedly surprised of the hall management enforcement. It is disappointing that the lodge almoner also appears to be sleeping behind the wheel to assist those more elderly. 

The messaging from both Grand Lodge based in Republic of Ireland and that of the Provincial Grand Lodge based in Northern Ireland is conflicting and discourages members from attending halls that are fully adherent to public safety.  

Hopefully good word of a Halls covid compliance will spread and that all members long awaited return will be further encouraged to do so. 

Stay safe and follow the rules, where ever you are.